Sonic Universe #50 and Sonic #247 Two preboot finales, one thread! It’s come to this. Time to say goodbye to the old canon, old friends, old enemies, old plot threads. First we have the final fight between two Metal Sonics. Shard will do whatever it takes to save Mobotropolis and the one person he’s come to adore. And Sonic’s Team Fighters make their final push to stop Eggman and rescue Sally but something interrupts them!
Question: What did you think of preboot Sonic? Favorite stuff? Hated stuff? Are you ready for the crossover and reboot?
>Silver’s theme song is “Dreams of An Absolution” >Absolution meaning formal release from guilt, obligation, or punishment. Forgiveness of sins. >The point of Silver fucking up so much during the traitor storyline was so he could have a redemption arc. Silver’s entire arc in Archie is a fucking song reference isn’t it?
>>142092849 Before we start, here's the cover for what was to be the original Sonic Universe 50. It was going to be the finale for Sonic Underground. Sorry TRIPLETS BORNbros.
>>142092851 >Silver stops Sally from killing Sonic at the last moment >Sonic looks at the readers and winks >"I guess you really were Dreams of an Absolution (2006) after all, Silver!" >Written by Ian Flynn
>>142092839 >What did you think of preboot Sonic? Enjoyed it a lot. Wish they had been given more time/leeway to integrate more game adaptations, though. Favorite stuff? The arc that lead to issue #200 Hated stuff? Knuckles #29 Are you ready for the crossover and reboot? NO!
>>142092898 Ah, that one thread where an anon asked "What's even good about Archie Sonic" or something like that got deleted, that's how the old one stayed up.
>>142092871 Honestly, I think it's for the best. Unless any of the original writers of the show were writing it, it wouldn't be the same having Ian or whoever else doing it.
>>142092839 > Question: What did you think of preboot Sonic? Favorite stuff? Hated stuff? Are you ready for the crossover and reboot? I fundamentally love how it let the Sonic universe feel so alive with the characters having their own things to do, letting the villains actually win sometimes and just exploring the characters in ways they just haven’t really tried since. Will say hate how much the characters in power are always making things worse, especially Max torpedoing Sally’s character before Flynn took over and Geoffrey….less said the better. But in the end despite the rough patches ultimately I quite like the preboot and it’s a shame some of the early weirdness prevent people from getting into a really fun and solid comic…also preboot Hood best Hood
>>142092985 Poor Knuckles, losing all of his [REDACTED]. >>142092980 As a consolation prize, ASO did their version of that issue that we'll cover after we're done with Archie.
>>142092839 ... And so comes at last. The first ending. God this shit hurts every time.
>Question: What did you think of preboot Sonic? Favorite stuff? Hated stuff? Are you ready for the crossover and reboot? Oh it got fucking messy, but that was part of the charm. For all its ups and downs, it was never boring. Well, except for the original 25YL, that was fucking shite.
>faves Mecha Madness, Stargazing, Iron Dominion, #175, Trouble in Paradise, Return to Angel Island, Thicker Than Water... There's some great stuff in there.
>hated The aforementioned 25YL. That one will always stick out to me as insufferable.
>>142092839 >>142092963 I feel that part of what made archis sonic so alive is the fact the there were so many pre established plot points and characters, and abandoned plot points that got a ton of new life once a competent writer took over. What sucks about IDW is the fact that there aren't as much rando characters that can get good development. And it takes forever for any new characters or locations to be even considered because of how strict SEGA is. I get they don't want echidna retardation again, but IDW is so lifeless comparatively.
>>142093033 >they're coming to understand and forgive me Those ingrates shouldn't have to forgive you. Magic or not, they should be asking for forgiveness.
I see why people ship nicole and shard, both have that getting distrust with other people thing but shard doesnt have the luxuary of getting good will from the people
>>142093220 I dunno what specifically but The Good, The Bad, and The Unknown aka that one story where Ken completely disregards all the lore including shit he also wrote
>>142092979 You can say that about much of the SFF. It's because they're set up to fail. Because Harvey Who is the traitor. For what it's worth, I think this time Elias knows. All of this is pointless speculation, because we'll never see the end, because Archie somehow bungled Work for Hire IP lawsuit.
>>142092839 >Question: What did you think of preboot Sonic? Favorite stuff? Hated stuff? Are you ready for the crossover and reboot?
I guess my favorite part of preboot Archie Sonic is how insane it is, both good and bad. This comic, which has roots in a long-cancelled 90s cartoon, expanded into pure batshit lunacy. You get to see a world that feels lived-in and elaborate, with ancient histories, magic, conspiracies, myths, and adventure -- just a bunch of various ideas and concepts stirred together to form this ramshackle but charming world. Even Pender's whole echidna nonsense is something awe-inspiring, because nowhere else could you see anything like this in any other piece of Sonic media.
It wasn't perfect by any means. But there was love and there was care in the mess and that's what made the comic special
>>142093252 It was moreso the idea of Metal Sonic being a line of robots instead of a single individual that gets rebuilt that pissed Sega off. This was around the time of Sonic 4, where they even showed Eggman rescuing Metal Sonic from the Stardust Speedway confirming he was never destroyed. When they finally noticed what the comic was, they told them to knock it off. Ian also said he wanted Metal to be less of a jobber. He owned up that he did Metal pretty wrong for most of his run.
>>142093316 >confirming he was never destroyed. He cameo'd in Sonic Adventure, appeared in Heroes as the main villain, and appeared as a playable character in Sonic Rivals 2. Of course he wasn't destroyed in CD.
>>142093380 This issue included the third part of Sonic 25 that has the race between Sonic and Mecha-Sonic aka Metal Sonic aka Shard but I'm skipping that since we already did it waaaaay back then. >>142093363 I'll Be Gone
>>142093362 Eggman is finally starting to like Metal, before this he treated his as disposable. Do you prefer Eggman seeing Metal as his pride and joy or him treating him as badly as his other subjects?
>>142093362 >Base Villain Yeah, Ivo. He also kinda shits on a good chunk of your Bots. And Grandmasters. And will probably insult you every chance he gets!
>>142093402 Look, Chavels is a very nice lady, based by this place standards even, but man.....this shit ain't impressive, especially when she spent like over 2 years making it
>>142093419 >>142093409 It's good that Eggman is giving more preference to Metal Sonic and kind of treating him like a son but he's definitely not willing to let Metal be anything more than a killer robot.
>>142093471 >>142093429 Probably would've been shown to have survived and would be back up and running later on. Of course Ian had to end it on him dying.
>tfw dislike regular metal sonic but like shard Like metal sonic in mainline is super fucking overrated jobber, even when he gets freedom, all he does is seethe at sonic. That's not truly living at all. I guess i like shard because he actually moves on past that to really living life without that hate.
>>142093517 Got the green light! >>142093507 Even at this point it wouldn't matter. I doubt Sega would reverse things and would not want anything to do with whatever he had a hand in creating.
>>142093452 Weird how to earn your Super Sonic Heroes Badge you had to hunt down some guy named Ken and bust his kneecaps? What the hell was that all about?
>>142093507 If he EVER said sorry, it would only be because of the consequences that have built up over time. He will never be genuinely sorry to anyone he has caused pain towards. Ben Hurst, the other writers at Archie, the fans...
>>142093603 Ben Hurst >>142093608 It was a movie that was going to serve in the place of the canned Season 3 of SatAm. It would have gone to theaters across the US. This may have started a different of Sonic than what we got in our timeline.
>>142093612 At the time, only the Penders characters were off-limits. Then it came to light they didn't own any character from the writers before Ian Flynn. So they threw everything out.
>>142093603 The main guy behind Satam. He told Ken in confedince about getting in touch with Sega about finding a way to continue Satam as either a movie, a new season. Ken then told Sega in some weird way that Ben was trying to have his project only benefit him and not Sega so his deal fell through. Ben lost trust with Sega and never got to officially continue Satam before he died
>>142093621 "What? You mean the person who's been turned into an evil robot and is doing evil things for the evil guy is the one that's going to do bad things in the future?? How dare you make such a wild assumption!"
>>142093650 He didn't just do that, he showed Sega his own god awful pitch on his laptop that was made in fucking Powerpoint. This killed all chances of Ben being heard by Sega ever again. Man didn't get to fully fulfill his dream.
>>142092839 >question I'd say it's my favorite continuity in terms of world building and I actually enjoyed the random western media stuff that appeared in the earliest comics, although it wasn't directly related to Sonic it still felt fitting considering the nature of the series. Although, this is where my opinion diverges a bit from the usual, I feel that it never fully recovered from the dark ages.
>>142093621 Yeah no shit Sally is the "traitor", Silver. The fact you somehow didn't immediately piece that together upon finding out that she was turned into Eggman's brainwashed minion is a big part of why people don't like you. You fucking doofus.
>>142093650 >>142093697 And then Ken, years later after his death, said he had poor business sense on Twitter and that was why the movie project failed and that he had to cut contact with Hurst because "he couldn't be reasoned with".
>>142093953 EXIT PREBOOT ARCHIE SONIC You can still say the crossover and that in-between Sonic Universe arc could be counted as preboot-ish but this is really it. And we'll do the encyclopedia covering all of the preboot after the crossover.
>>142093996 I guess, without Silver, Sally would have blasted them all and this would have been the end for them. So, mission accomplished, Silver, and not a moment too son...
>>142094023 Penders sucks. Penders destroyed my favorite part of the Sonic franchise. How could he do this to me and so many others. At least we have fan continuations just need to cross fingers and hope one is completed one day.
>>142093996 >Silver:......FOR FUCKS SAKE CAN I GET A WIN HERE?! >Sonic: Dude, welcome to Eggman's "Victory? Nah time for a kick in the balls session!".
>>142094065 Do you think he tried to do nudity in Archie Sonic? Like, suggest something like showing Julie-Su breastfeeding a baby Lara-Su in the hospital bed?
>>142094119 Pre 160 gets an overall 5/10 from me. Plenty of highs but it's overall too inconsistent, I liked Bollers writing and some other writers but Penders issues were usually a slog to get through.
Post 160, I give it an 8/10. Love Flynn's work and think that is was probably the peak of his writing.
>>142093319 1. Despite being an industry professional, and knowing he'll be up against the likes of his replacement, Geoffrey and a scary insane wizard with the fate of his nation hanging in the balance, he loads his team with showboaters, fuck ups, and well meaning but complete amateurs to the business of Covert Ops. With the possible exception of Elias thanks to his being conned by St. John 2. The dumb pun using his surname. God, the exchange would've been legendary.
We are all focusing on Ken but think about this from an In-Universe perspective.
Eggman... won. He didn't get exactly what he wanted, but he managed to wipe out the entire old multiverse, kill everyone in it, and not everyone or everything was brought back from it in the one new.
The old world, and everything it stood for, was lost. And it doesn't even matter that those who rematerialized in the new one remember anything from before, they end up forgetting anyway.
And Sonic and Sally... their love that once demonstrated that it could transcend universes and reality changes, was once and for all, broken.
And as much as Eggman hates both of them, he always hated Sonic more. And Sonic pays a bigger price than Sally. He remembers more than her. He doesn't feel as much of what he felt but he remember more of everything, or the very least, his mind has bonded better with the memories. This hurt more for Sonic than it did for Sally.
And soon... both of them would have forgotten about the rest anyway, and moved on.
Ken drew this for the SatAM DVD cover after he lied and said he worked on the show. Many of the characters are trace jobs from show screenshots with the BG he traced/ripped from Spaz's art from the Archie Brave New World special
>>142094130 Honestly, Ben Hurst's plan also sounds like wishful thinking. I don't think he understood Sonic's game designers are over at Japan. Who was he actually expecting to talk to, Iizuka? Does he even speak English?
>>142094119 Solid 8.5/10 with its bumps but I loved it. My favorite sonic canon and possibly thing ever. I'm really glad and grateful for conductor to storytime it.
>>142094023 I'm glad everyone who still cares about Sonic still get's/got to work on more Sonic comics even though they never feel like they measure up.
Also Ken's an idiot because at the end of the day the only thing he tanked was his own legacy.
>>142094239 >>142094239 Wow, I didnt know he lied about that. God, what a fucking prick. That dvd box set deserved a better cover and someone like the actual spaz to draw it
>>142094160 One of Ken's biggest problems aside from his ego is his inability to understand the tone of Sonic and he tries to make it more "mature." Since he has no sense of subtlety Ken just adds the most insane, jarring imagery without any regard for how it flows or fits into the world.
Imagine being a SEGA ex and seeing this grotesque Snively torturing a Mobian and Ken smiling goofily and rambling about how this will "make Sonic more sophisticated"
>>142094214 Really makes me think of that time Knuckles and Sonic said "We'll win this war" to I think Tommy Turtle's grave? Sadly, they didn't win the war
>>142094214 Eggman also erased his own victories like the destruction of Knothole. The rebooted world was generally more peaceful and capable of fending him off. He never conquered it like he did in the old world.
>>142094023 Goodbye preboot Archie! You've given me so many husbandos and hunks! I shall list them! >Mobie >Mammoth Mogul >Kodos the Lion >T-Rex Ancient Walker >Octobot >Termite-Nator (a product of the gag era) >Crocbot >Helmut von Stryker (shared with another anon!) >Tusk Luza >The Iron King Jun Kun >Blackjack and Ebony Hare >George Sommersby >Robotnik from Sonic Underground >Sonic's high school principal from #94 >Zan the Red Dragon (RIP) >The bear teacher from #114 >E-123 Omega >Avery the Bear >Thrash (sorry Echidna-bros :/ ) >Guts Man >Auto >Stern(?) Besides the hunks, you paneled so many other great characters, including Nicole, the Iron Queen and her iconic Mree-Hee-Hee! There's a lot I could say, but I'll leave it at this for now.
>>142094283 True but that doesn't matter. All the characters we see in the Post-Reboot are not even the same people. They are copies. Old Robotnik died but so did everyone else. In his final act and in his final fuck you, he destroyed EVERYTHING.
So what if he didn't get what he wanted in the new multiverse. He still got the last laugh in the last one, whether he realizes it or not.
>>142094214 Eggman can’t even enjoy his victory though cause he is mostly worse off then he started, in the end no one won from all his reality ravaging actions…except Thrash suppose since sum total of two Echidna’s remain and one is a ghost
>>142094283 This is another thing I love about the reboot universe. Because it's basically just the games, but with Archie characters, it's overall more pleasant world. A world that is worth preserving. ... Was worth saving, anyway.
>>142093996 >Chaos Force >Hawking: Well. That's it then, I guess. Tell me, Aurora, did THIS fit in your grand scheme? Because, WOW. >Athair: FUCK YOU, HAWKING. >Hawking: ME? I mean between the two of ya, our people get blasted to the stone age twice, then dispersed, the Albion walkabout was waste of time and the boy gets manipulated so many times it's a miracle that he didn't get Brian damaged! And worse of all, he didn't get laid! And let's not even bring in the other poor bastards we fucked with our bullshit like the Chaotix or poor Merlin here! By the way how you're holding up? >Merlin: Maybe I should've followed the source of all. Neo Walking is Neo Fucking Worthless. >Athair: Don't act so smug-- >Merlin: Yeah, because it's not like my family didn't clean up YOUR family's shit. And mow? Reality is screwed.
>"That Eggman may have murdered an insane amount of people in the multiverse and ruined your life and many more, but I think he deserves another chance" How do you react
>>142094338 Take it this way, as I said, new Eggman, new everyone else. Everything changed.
The Eggman we knew managed to destroy everything. In his final act, he won. I don't get how him not getting anything like he wanted in the new world matters when he literally destroyed everything forever.
This makes so sad about what was lost. I much prefer the preboot universe to the reboot one because of the weird worldbuilding and all the characters and the more serious tone. Why did Penders have to take this away from us.
>>142094214 I always had that schizo theory that when the universe "rebooted" It didn't actually erase the old timeline but left it stranded while all the characters present in the reboot just switched continuity. kind of look at it that way, suddenly one day the FF/Game characters are gone and now all that is left is a war torn Mobius where all the sub bosses that didn't make it try to take control of what's left of the Eggman Empire. In fact even Mammoth Mogul would go back to pure villainy because Sonic's finally gone so expect more wizardly bullshit
>>142094457 Are you asking in that you want to know what to read or you've read them and want to know everyone's opinions on them? Because everyone will have a chance to read them when we storytime them later.
>>142094425 >Jules figures that since Shard is a copy of his son, he must also be a slutty bisexual
>>142094456 Dude. That's the exact same kind of cope DC fans were pushing when the Nu52 happened. I would know, I was one of them. Nah man, it ain't happening. ... Oh god, would Sega actually be insane enough to do the "Everything is canon." as a serious story element?
>>142094346 Yeah, while there were good people o old Archie Mobius, there were also a great amount of fuckwits. Not as bad as Fleetway Mobius, though, where everyone wanted to be the next Robotnik after willingly working for him when he took over.
Yes. Notice how the mandates, which were already started to get a hold on the games, were immediately strengthened right after the lawsuit? Archie Post-reboot was the first victim, then Forces (skipping lost world because it was simply just a shitty game while Forces clearly had someone (Sega) scribbling shaprie all over it) , then everything else after that.
>>142093647 >At the time, only the Penders characters were off-limits. Then it came to light they didn't own any character from the writers before Ian Flynn. Professor Farnsworth are you taking requests for your death curses? I know you hate Ken, but you gave it to him last thread and I think Archie's Execs deserve at least one.
>>142092839 >Question I still miss it. There was something special about preboot that never came back, all those insane early days stories, all the times Sega forced them to shove game content into the story, making them do crazy shit to fit it all in (like when Locke began LARPing as a tribesman when he stopped being a Kryptonian rip-off). Gonna be honest and say that I like IDW more than reboot because all the stuff that got carried over reminds me of how much the ending of preboot sucks for me to fully enjoy the actual comics.
>>142093784 He did technically save the city that one time from a massive energy blast. At the very least he played ball with the Freedom Fighters in the public.
>>142093591 Seriously. It’s stupid that most normalfags hate him because he created a bunch of Knuckles clones when the shit he pulled with Ben is actually worthy of hate.
>>142094516 >Oh god, would Sega actually be insane enough to do the "Everything is canon." as a serious story element?
I would say yes since they are trying to make stuff like Prime and IDW canon, but that's only because of the brand, not some grand scheme for a massive multiversal thing in the future that brings everything back.
1-50 Fine 51-75 not as god 76-85 meh 86-159 mostly shit 160-200 Great 201-251 Pretty good SU kino Knuckles Series cringe kino Sonic X mostly meh Super Specials, miniseries and one shots ok but fuck Naugus Games, Image Crossover and Sonic Live
I don't feel as bad as I used too since learning about those fan comic continuations. They're pretty neat and awesome. Knowing there's that much dedication, love and trucking on despite all the sadness is truly cool. Never giving up is truly the sonic way.
>>142094516 >would Sega actually be insane enough to do the "Everything is canon." as a serious story element? Wasn't this said by that Webber guy who kept shilling Game Grumps even thought they shit on the Sonic series?
>>142094471 You mean a book that's ugly as sin, probably never gonna actually come out, and even if it did come out wouldn't come close to making back the money he thought it would. Meanwhile all the "hacks" he thinks he put out of the job are still working in the industry he's been backlisted from because who is gonna wanna hire him if he pulled this lawsuit shit just to make a ugly as sin overwritten shitpost?
>>142093697 If Lanolin lead this team instead of Rotor she would start berating Cream for not having hard proof, defend Tails Doll as an essential part of the team, and then start beating up Cream.
>>142093621 Honestly this is what he gets for not just leveling with Sonic and showing him the bad future to get him on his side(which he had the power to do when he had the time stone and warp ring)
>>142094636 This. Reboot was allowed to actually have a proper resolution for its overarching narrative. Really, the only "continuations" are the reconstructions of those unfinished issues.
That, and it seemed pretty obvious that the next major storyline was going to be Lost World related, and nobody wants to humor that bullshit.
>>142094636 I'd love a reboot continuation that started reintroducing the old world characters. Imagine the Forty Fathom Freedom Fighters defending Meropis.
>>142093724 I don’t buy Sally destroying the world at all. She’s not that strong, she’s a B-tier in this world at best. People with no emotional connection to her like Shadow or the rest of Team Dark could easily handle her.
>>142094686 It was a great time, the art was getting better and the higher ups were not giving it as much attention to stop the good stuff from getting out.
>>142093846 Bitterness from being fired and replaced, an acquired distaste for answering to the Acorns, secretly being another Naugus apprentice (contrived, but so was Geoffrey's), a combination of ambition and arrogance that makes him think he can do better against Eggman. All speculation, I'm sorry we'll never know for sure.
Do you think if the Penders bullshit didn't happen, Archie would still be going today? Would Sonally have been maintained? Would they have kept introducing stuff from the games into their horribly out-of-date SatAM setting?
>>142092839 And so 20 years of continuous worldbuilding and character arcs is flushed down the drain. And in the end the villains win. Eggman succeeds in completely resetting the world, Thrash succeeds in eliminating all but one Echidna, Naugus is king, Antoine's dead. It's a canonical bad ending.
>>142094755 Meh. Flynn did his best with the Deadly Six in IDW, but they're still lame. Zavok admittedly had something going for him in the Bad Guys miniseries though. Maybe Sally could've negotiated some kind of agreement between Knothole and Lost Hex.
>>142094870 >Do you think if the Penders bullshit didn't happen, Archie would still be going today? Yes. It was one of Archie's best sale. Would Sonally have been maintained? Maybe.
>>142094870 >Do you think if the Penders bullshit didn't happen, Archie would still be going today? No, Penders forced the reboot, but Worlds Unite and Riverdale killed Archie Sonic.
These comics were recommended to me by people online and my ex. She was the main driving factor and the person who got me into Sonic stuff to begin with, about two years ago. Started me off with SatAM, then I got to play Sonic the Hedgehog 2 via Steam. The rest is history. I wasn't fully sure if I would end up enjoying the comics considering the things I had heard about them. But wow... I am so glad I did not turn them down.
I cannot sugar-coat, there are some parts of the comic that absolutely sucked and were very hard for me to read, even had to take a break or two.
I hated the early romance drama, from both Penders and Bollers.
I hated Geoffrey St John and how Sally was written during specific moments as someone who didn't stand up to unwanted advances. The Sally I know would've slapped his stupid face.
Sally in the beginning didn't have the personality we see in Ian's run, but she was at least pretty similar to SatAM Sally, and was presented as a strong leader to the point that Robotnik Prime had to make dolls of her and Bunnie that were sexist caricatures to cope with it.
The Knuckles comics... I didn't finish them. They were kinda boring and I could go along with the comics without being too confused.
However, the first several or so were actually pretty good. But then Ken didn't know what to do with his shit so things start to tank.
The whole "LSD" story arc was so ridiculous that it was hilarious. It's actually my favorite Penders story because of how much of a shitpost it is.
People don't like the slapstick, AOSTH-based stories from the earliest times, but I enjoyed them. Not as thrilling as what would be to come later but they were nice to read, definitely would've enjoyed it a lot as a kid.
Endgame, is actually not that bad of a story. I think it would've been cooler if Hershey was given cooler means to disguise herself but whatever. Sally... [1}
>>142094569 >That's actually... sad and horrifying. Jesus christ, now it hurts even more when I think about it. Don't worry, I'm sure a Mobotropolis with only Elias, Larry Lynx and two Wolf Pack cuties as it's defenders can fend for itself :D
>>142094879 >Eggman succeeds in completely resetting the world Eggman's goal was to create a world where he was ruler of the world. He failed to create such a reality.
>>142092839 >Question: What did you think of preboot Sonic? Favorite stuff? Hated stuff? It is one of my favorite continuities and I hate to watch it go. Favorite stuff is obviously the expanded characterizations, lore, and worldbuilding, Shard, Nicole, Antoine becoming the greatest, Mighty & Ray and all the other expanded Chaotix, Spectre, and so much more. Most hated is obviously Penders.
>Are you ready for the crossover and reboot? Fuck no. I'm basically leaving these threads after that happens.
>>142094913 Anti-Penders is just Ian. They are very alike and Ian obviously takes a lot of inspiration from him but uses it for good rather than his own ego.
>>142094870 The comic would be absoutely soulles if it was still alive. Hell, reboot was already showing that soullessness with classic shit near the end.
>>142094938 >Fuck no. I'm basically leaving these threads after that happens. Crossover is actually good. It's just a shame it came in such circumstances...
>>142094675 >Just let your team beat the shit out of the new guy while accusing them of trying to kill them all like a normal person, GOD! I'll consider this progress because at least you're not going after something Archie did ten times as often as IDW.
>>142094960 I would prefer it if the lawsuit never happened but SEGA told Archie that the story had to end soon and so they wrapped up they story with a good ending.
Honestly I still think it would have been going if Penders didn't do anything. Yes, Archie was seething at the fact that Sonic was selling way more than their own comics, but money was money, and they were loving it. Yes, World Collide and stuff related to other IPs did hurt their pockets but they could have recouped that given time, and Archie Sonic had an ending on the horizon, it wouldn't be a troublesome thing forever.
What really killed it, was being forsaken by Sega and getting snubbed by them FOR YEARS. Ken suing and Sega letting them burn alive in court was the final straw, and they weren't even wanting to pull the plug completely then, they were onboard for a whole ass reboot. This tells me that had the Pendering not happened, Archie would've at least allowed the writers to hurry it up to make a decent conclusion, then can it. Maybe the finale could've been one finale battle between Robotnik and Sonic, where he also finally gets to save Sally... idk.
But either way, I'm fairly certain that Sonic would have continued as the only non-Archie IP being produced.
Silver's dynamics with Shard and Larry were his best ones. Larry lets him flex his nice side with someone to constantly help and Shard shit talks him at every turn but ultimately has his best interests at heart which is so refreshing compared to his Game/IDW partnerships where it's nothing but people pep talking and coddling him 24/7.
>>142094955 What I love about Joe's work is that it proves that if you pool all of Sonic's continuities together you get this really big detailed world full of shit like magic, gods, sci-fi and shit like DC and Marvel but all the characters can still just have fun and live when not saving the world.
>>142094870 >Do you think if the Penders bullshit didn't happen, Archie would still be going today? Assuming that Anon wasn't talking out of his ass about Archie not owning ANY of the OC characters and not just Penders'? No. Kills me to say it, but no. If it wasn't the Penders suit, it would've been some other thing. They built a castle on a legal foundation of sand. It was bound to wash away eventually.
I am really really hoping ASO completes itself so we can finally have an end for these characters. Fanfiction is easier than fancomics, so I hope someone goes out and does it for us, and concludes the preboot story. Maybe does it so well that people who reccomend reading preboot would reccomend reading the fan continuation alongside it as well. The Sonic fanbase is dedicated so I hope someone can fulfill this dream of mine.
>>142094870 Wasnt Penders at least keeping Sonally going on in his stories ? I remember him going against the "will they wont they " bullshit Bollers and the editor were pushing in.
>>142093996 So that it huh? Years of stories, both good and bad, thrown in the dumpster because one man felt jipped. Not even a bang or whimper, just... gone.
>>142093429 Repaired most likely. His ability to regenerate from damage is ridiculous and I don't doubt that Chuck rebuilt his power core with that in mind.
>>142095126 >Fanfiction is easier than fancomics I dont know if its easier, but people definitely put a lot more content in written stories compared to fancomics.
>>142094218 It's not the fact that people thought Ben's plan was gonna work, it's the fact that Penders went behind his FRIEND'S back, and fuck shit up so hard SoJ got mad at HIM, not Penders.
>>142095228 I've written fanfiction before and can't draw. Just looking at the pace ASO and all the other fancomics are going at I just came to the conclusion that it's easier to create more volume of story with fanfiction than with fancomic.
Remember to keep giving Ian money on his podcast like the paypigs you are and hope he answers your question concerning Archie and not dance around the topic because of spoilers and tell you to instead wait for Lost Hedgehog Tales that will come out “one day”. Chop chop. The man has bills to pay.
I've only read Scrapnik Island so far but I kinda wanna read IDW solely just to see what makes Lanolin so controversial (fanbase things like that are a weird hobby of mine)
>>142095307 Makes sense, theres drawing, paneling, coloring, visual pacing, all of that just to put out something that might not fill even a page of a written story. Its even worse when it comes to animation.
>>142095244 nta But I think the hate for her is overblown, I don't expect people to like her, but it seems what most people take problem with her has an in-universe explanation. From her PoV Whisper and Silver basically attack "Duo" for no reason, although I do find the idea that she's secretly working with Clutch as posited by some people to be interesting.
>>142095355 Because he's probably being paid with peanuts. He's not a Sega employee, he's freelance. And even then, Sega pays their actual employees like shit. So really, imagine Ian.
Most of the writers for Archie were more fans of the game cast tgan the SatAM ones. Often times Bollers would ask Axer for ideas. Ian definrely steered the comic in a more Sega direction, washing out the SatAM elements remaining. It's bexause of Ian we never got to see SatAM Robotnik have a proper comeback under him. In his words ge felt new readers would be too confused on why more than one Eggnan can exist.
>>142095359 >From her PoV Whisper and Silver basically attack "Duo" for no reason But for me, that's my only reason (so far) to dislike her. Whispers KNOWS Mimic, I'd trust her fucking word.
>>142095359 She should have told Silver to fuck off harder. Dude is a mentally disabled child with no business making decisions. IDW is based for showing autistic people being as useless as they are in real life even if you give them bullshit powers.
>>142094892 [2}... dying kinda annoyed me but I like how it was turned around and made it to where she faked her death. Ken seething at that is also a good mental image. Seeing Sonic fleeing for his life after everyone thinks he killed Sally made the arc more interesting to read but fuck I hated Geoffrey.
I will NEVER forgive Sally for turning her into a useless, crying bitch for that moment. Purely for that, I'm attempting to rewrite that whole shit with a fancomic of my own this year.
> Inb4 that one anon says "But she had responsibilities"
WHAT RESPONSIBILITIES? Her dad literally took away her power of command, and kept her cooped up doing NOTHING while he was running the show. Fuck that, Sally should've marched out and go help her friends and be more direct like she was a lot of the time before. But nooooooo, Bollers had to make her useless and pathetic and a daddy's girl.
On top of that, the Slap actually makes sense if you take into account about everything that had happened with Sally before it. She hit her breaking point. Except it doesn't translate well to readers because of how her character was handed in the events leading to it. Fuck Bollers and his character treatment and his own stupid love triangle shit. Whenever Ken wasn't around to have Sally fuck someone else, Bollers was there to make sure that Sonic fucked someone else. God
>>142095170 >Good ideas that translated into a well-flowing, enjoyable story. >Made a well thought out story about a skunk who got sexually assaulted instead of a shitty one about the skunk doing it instead. >Very humble, treated everyone with respect and kindness. Never expected his stuff to get far or well known. >Art never declined in quality, still true to this day. >Got his characters and work at the front and center of his favorite computer community and was and still is a well respected and beloved figure within it. >Actually got to make his own story and complete it, actually owns his characters.
>>142093849 That is not a good thing unless you only care about the franchise for porn. Ahklut looking like an actual whale and most aquatic mobians resembling their animal counterparts was a cool take on them.
>>142095441 >Archie will sell their stories to IDW so he can give the book a proper end. What do you mean ? Didnt the rights go to Sega after the license contract ended ?
>>142095427 Penders never played a single Sonic game in his life. Go back and look at Sonic Live of creepy photos of his kids playing Sonic. They are clearly holding a tv remote.
>>142095410 is ABT the only crew member still working on Sonic comics who's this semi horny on main/ >Not counting Rafa since you know, she's fired and blacklisted
>>142095266 Yes they did, and I am surprised that there is now fan art of them having BABY KAIJU MAKING SEX and causing an earthquake to happen from it.
>>142095459 >Purely for that, I'm attempting to rewrite that whole shit with a fancomic of my own this year. Nice ! Hope you can give us an update on that before the Conductor finishes storytiming the Archie fancomics. Or give an update later on the other website
While I do believe that Penders had a lot of potential with his ideas, he just didn't know what to with him, and so the echidnas, including knuckles, ended up being pretty useless characters that didn't get to do much, except for the Legion, especially later on...
>Ahhhhh the thread limit got reached running out of time so I will try to get the things that are sticking out the most into the thread before it closes...
>>142095459 I think the love triangles were editor mandated according to the TKP blog and because of the comic getting older and them thinking that the audience is aging so covering topics like romance more in depth. I think Bollers was intended to build up to something with Sally's character but was cut short.
>>142094474 In a perfect world, Jon Gray would still lie working on official Sonic media.
>>142094500 Knuckles still had his people and family for a good while, meanwhile Charmy losing his entire kingdom and becoming the last (known) bee on Mobius alongside Saffron was well before he got brain damaged. So Charmy, but it's close.
>>142094973 The possibility is open, but mostly nope. I'm going to chill in the Pokespe threads over on /a/ and essentially ignore the rest of the storytime until it finishes. I simply can't handle all the bullshit surrounding the SGW and the reboot - it puts me in a really dark mood.
>>142095838 Also no. Sega owns everything, and if he tries that he and his wife are getting raped in court to the point they'll never be allowed in a court of law again.
>>142095648 >BiSlut Sonic is actually not that much of slut. Sure he may flirt with Knuckles, threatened to rock Shadow's world, teased Antoine(both agreed that it wouldn't work because someone has to be the bottom), would hate fuck Ash into oblivion, thinks Elias is pretty as Sally, calls Alica her MILFNess, Julie-Su "Ms. Top Energy", Lien-Da scrousing and called Larry a nice drunk fuck, he's loyal to Sally. Though he's always scheming to get Knux & Julie-Su or Rouge in a foursome. Or orgy. Totally loyal.
>>142095862 >Also no. Sega owns everything, and if he tries that he and his wife are getting raped in court to the point they'll never be allowed in a court of law again. That would be glorious.
>>142094839 Honestly kinda starting to like the idea but you can cut out the Ixis apprentice bit since that doesn't really make much sense and honestly I can't see how it would play out, his base motivations are good enough
>>142095100 Licensed comics never own the stuff they create if a lawsuit goes through. Under actual US law, in such a situation everything rightfully goes back to the IP-holder - in this case, Sega. But this would never have been a problem if Ken didn't try to sue and Sega actually intervened, because it never comes up outside of a means to cut-off this sort of bullshit during a lawsuit.
Sega was basically fine just ignoring Archie, so if the lawsuit never happened, they'd probably just let it continue. It would take a second Ken Penders-tier autist with high influence amongst the writing team coming in to actually cause the situation that led to the reboot and cancelation without Ken being involved.
>25 years later. Yes yes yes, hear me out. It's good for only one thing, showing how Sonic and Sally are not the best couple in certain situations, and that Sonic becoming a King would be miserable for him to his free-willed, chaotic personality. Being King is literally putting Sonic in an glorified office job for the rest of his life. Jesus Christ, I would hate that too.
Sonic and Sally only work when the monarchy is abolished, or when Elias runs everything if it still manages to exist after the war against Robotnik and all other antagonists ends.
>Sally.
No longer has to worry about him anyone, he can be there with her and for her all the time.
>Sonic.
Is not confined to being a king, gets to remain free to fully express his nature and still help others.
Things won't be over once the war is done. Rebuilding from YEARS of devastation and BS will need to be done, and it still won't be a quick job even with AIs, Magical McGuffins, and Sonic's super speed.
Sonic always does what he can to help people out on the field. He hates being an in indirect position via Politics.
Sally always has had a sense of duty. She isn't a princess or a member of the head of state anymore, so she would be determined to help the people by helping the rebuilding process.
She would also definitely be doing everything she can to make up for her time as Mecha Sally, and probably would also need therapy, maybe lots of it, especially if she went down a similar road as Glitcher's Mecha Sally.
Sonic would also be there to help her during bad moments, PTSD, etc.
And during their work, they can continue to bond, and will not have to stress out about anything too much either anymore.
Yes, eventually they would settle down, have kids. Sonic would probably have a mid-life crisis anyway since there is nothing else to fight anymore, but he would probably be better off since he would be more free than he would be as a King, and since he wouldn't need to...
Bollers’s final speech to Penders. >We had a good thing, you stupid son of a bitch! We had Kaminski. We had a Archie reprints royalties. We had everything we needed, and it all ran like clockwork. You could’ve shut your mouth, and made as much money as you ever needed. It was perfect. But, no, you just had to blow it up. You and your pride and your ego! You just had to be the man. If you’d done your job, known your place, we’d all be fine right now!
>>142095875 >Jules is actually relieved that Shard is less of a total slut than Sonic. At least one of his sons won't cause a horrific scandal in the future
>>142095965 No, he doesn't even own Scourge or his design. The story that Scourge's redesign first appeared in is credited to someone entirely different. And whatever they paid him was probably in pennies, if so anyhow.
Ken is a horrific scam artist and anyone foolish enough to work with him deserves exactly what they're getting.
>>142096037 It basically ally got immediately nuked in the crib because it was a legal disaster in the making and Penders immediately tried to memoryhole it afterwards. Same shit he did for his NFT scam.
>>142095990 Yeah I dont beliieve they actually paid that amount. But I'm also thinking Penders ended scamming them in the end.
The comic wasnt supposed to be related to his origin story. And it even used a variation of his green design, which Penders isnt even supposed to have a claim on since it was created after he left Archie.
>>142095920 [5]... contain and hide his personality due to public image.
Once the kids start to grow, he teaches his kids to control their running. When they are older, vacation and adventure time! Sonic carries Sally, with Sonia and Manic following beside them both on the weekends. Then they go back home before school on Monday.
Sonic in his older age will probably mellow down some more, less adventuring, running, more being around with Sally.
Sally gets to have a fulfilling life with her soulmate and not feel abandoned ever again. From here, they would get to live happily ever after. This is THE ideal scenario.
And right quick before the thread closes...
>Ian's run
Holy shit. I cannot believe how this dude managed to turn things around. He managed to take all of these resources at his disposal, and make great stories with them, and vastly improve certain elements.
I even fucking love Geoffrey now. A tragic anti-villain who now actually has reasons and a convincing backstory as to why he did everything he did. He was groomed since fucking childhood. It all makes sense now.
Antione becomes more of a chad. Rotor becomes a shadow of himself, gets a glow up, becomes fucking Iron man. Even Tails gets to kick ass. Bunnie has her character moment when she struggles with her derobotization, Sonic begins to become less and less merciful with everything happening and I love it.
New Robotnik actually can kick Sonic's shit in and push Sonic to the limit and its CRAZY.
Even when all seems to be lost with the lawsuit, Ian pulls out of his ass an ancient story element from the early comics, the devildogs, creates lore around them, then makes an antagonist related to said lore and uses that lore and character to snap away the echidnas just like that AND IT WORKS.
SHARD! I LOVE SHARD!!! AND NICOLE.
Ian also goes back and pulls old, forgotten characters and story elements and give them depth and uses them and its just so unexpected and fun to read...
>>142096104 Almost certainly. That's the only reason anyone still tries to get 'in' with Penders - for clout from "one of the writers of Archie Sonic". They don't care that he's also the guy who killed it and ruined everything for so many people, including his former friends, fans, and coworkers.
>>142096139 Nah. Also it's hilarious that Zero is top tier in every Vs. Game he's in and his lightning loop bullshit was directly referenced in Project X Zone 2.
>>142095920 >especially if she went down a similar road as Glitcher's Mecha Sally Im expecting that one to rush for a knife the moment she becomes a mobian again.
>>142095819 Well if he didn't go full moron he wouldn't have that issue and he could have stayed having longest running video game comic under his belt.
I literally said "NO" when Sally died right before then... A FUCKING MACHINE GUN TOO. WHAT THE FUCK IAN?????
Shut up, idc. I loved this fun, adorable arc. I even went ahead and bought a hardcover copy the other day. It was also cool to see the cast in Classic form and going on a SatAM-esque adventure.
Sally and Sonic... this story was a simple but marvelous way to show how their bond as friends, and their love as a couple, as I said earlier, >>142094214, was unbreakable, and transcended multiverses, reality rewrites, DEATH, and whatever else Robotnik could throw at the both of them. And the Super Genesis wave takes this narrative, crumples it into a ball, then punches it into the middle of your chest, leaving a whole.
In his final act in that universe, Robotnik won. He took that away and broke them apart forever, among SO MUCH OTHER SHIT...
Oh boy... does Ian love pain... and I love it too, and hate it. It's not done with bad reason either. All the pain we get brought forth great character development and tension that kept me going, wanting to know how this was gonna end... how this was all going to be okay...
>Example, Nicole
She got turned evil, had so much shit flung at her by the populace afterwards, lost Sally, got backstabbed by Mina, got banished, went into deep depression, considered ending herself by hesitating with an upload, and she STILL got back up again, had no ill-will and went to help the people once more. THEY DON'T DESERVE NICOLE, SHE HAS A HEART OF PURE GOLD!
>Shadow
GOD! I love Shadow in this comic! The dude, he has baggage, likely some PTSD, but he isn't a dick, is able to move past it, manages to make friends, and to be a be a great friend to Hope, who had pretty much lost everything. THE ULTIMATE TEAM DARK!
And of course, he isn't a softie. He will get his hands ditry if he has to... and will also be willing to help others even if it goes against his interests (helping Blaze after initial confrontation).
>The suffering... gets no payoff...
And so it hurts. Nothing gets resolved. We just sit here, and think about what could have been. 20 years of stories and development just gone... with so many dire things left hanging and then burned...
There's many other things I could say but the thread is almost done, so I'll cut down to the chase.
These comics DO SUCK at certain points but oh my god, it's like that mining meme but you actually get to the diamonds and I have zero regrets despite the pain. I will die on the hill by saying that Archie Sonic is a piece of peak Sonic media, and almost nothing else in the franchise comes close to it in terms of worldbuilding, character development, and story.
>>142096438 No, because Silver is considered a knockoff of Trunks from Dragon Ball. But I dare someone to somehow give Penders the comparisons between Lara-Su and Silver and see how he reacts.
>>142096313 I somehow only got it for about $20 or $30 something from a seller on Amazon, and it's literally in perfect condition, it's as if nobody had ever opened it before or only read it once at most. Got very lucky
>>142096311 Yes, though I already began reading it about a year ago, then stopped for a break, then read some more, another break, then I found the ride which I think was around Endgame, so I got to go back a bit, and read it with you guys, though a few weeks ago I went ahead and binged read it and so I am now back her to finish the ending with you guys and experience the pain all over again, and this time I get to see details that I missed that make it better.
